Thursday, September 11, 2008

Email from Gertrude 3

More Gertrude:

Let me clear ome misconceptions you have about the real world.

You said:
> that Also, you assert
> science has the evidence of god but do not say what that evidence is.

Yes I did. Read again.

> say that as a mathematician you can clearly state that god likely exists.
> How? Do you have an equation?

Read again, I told you.

>I'd love to see it.
I you would, If you read what I said.

> if your evidence is simply> the existence of the world, I have already stated that the Big bang,> abiogenesis, and evolution can account for what we see. If you have> specific objections to those, please give them.

Hahaha, abiogenesis? Nothing created something and BAM we are here. Yes,maybe you should provide some evidence for that ... FAITH... Trying to remove God anyway you can eh?
First thing Faith.Second thing Faith.Third thing a THEORY that is indoctrinated into the kids because of darwinism.

> 2. If there were instruments that measured souls like you can measure> nitrogen and argon, I would believe in souls.> As for animals, they do not have the brain capacity that we have because> they have not evolved it. That is why we can't "debate" with them, not> because we have a soul and they don't.

Hold on. Dont you believe YOU are an Animal? Now im confused.Contradictory statements. You cant make up your mind? First your equal now you are superior?
We ARE special. Saying anything else is just silly. Look at us, look what we can do, think act. Do you really believe a monkey have a soul? So why doesnt he build Airplanes? Computers
? Debate?

> 3. We could debate on what exactly the "greatest country" means, but I> won't> really challenge you there. I don't agree with everything that goes on> here, but I do love America and would never want to live anywhere else.> However,> we are not founded on Christianity. Many of the founding fathers were deists> and religious freedom was specifically written into the bill of rights.> In my opinion, we are a great nation in spite of also being so religious.

WHY would you NOT want to live anywhere else? Somewhat of a contradiction?If the UNITED STATES, a nation of CHRISTIANS (majority) is so good, that must mean our Religion isn't to bad then, eh?
Why not move to Soviet Union? Or China? WHY WOULD YOU NOT want to live anywhere else? Please, give details. It would be good for you to think aout that question, and it may make you go 'oh... ahhhhh!'.


My latest Response:

You stated that
--most people believe in god
--"Science makes it clear" (without telling what specific aspects of science or evidence from science)
--the world, animals, and people exist

None of that is evidence for god.

2. Abiogenesis is not 'something from nothing." Science has shown that given organic chemicals and electrical energy, amino acids form. I also direct you to this news story which details research into the origin of life.http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/09/biologists-on-t.html?npu=1&mbid=yhp

While not all the details are known, there is evidence for how this could occur. Therefore I do not take this on faith. If research came out tomorrow disputing the big bang, abiogenesis, or evolution, I would consider it, see what the experts thought, and eventually change my mind if necessary. In contrast, people who take "god did it" on faith usually never change their minds even when confronted with mounds of evidence. Yes, evolution is a theory, so is gravity. The word theory in science means a model that takes into account the facts, not just something someone pulled out of their ass. And what is "darwinism?"

3. Humans are animals. However, you used the examples of horses and peacocks and stated that the differences between them and humans were due to a soul. I do not believe that anything has a soul. I believe the differences betweern humans and non-humans are due to the brain we have evolved and nothing else.

4. The United States has separation of church and state and its corresponding freedoms. That is what makes our country great. The fact that the majority of people are christians has nothing to do with it, as our constitution is secular and extends freedom to all people. I have the freedom to be both an atheist and a proud American.

15 comments:

Adrian Hayter said...

This "mini-series" of emails has really brightened up my day. Same refuted arguments repeated again and again and again.

Do you really believe a monkey have a soul? So why doesnt he build Airplanes? Computers? Debate?

LMAO!

stoneraven said...

"Yes I did. Read again."

Gertrude, you can't read what isn't there.

stoneraven said...

Gertrude said: "Hahaha, abiogenesis? Nothing created something and BAM we are here. Yes,maybe you should provide some evidence for that ... FAITH... Trying to remove God anyway you can eh?"

And God came from where exactly? Did he think himself into existence from nothing, oh wait you were getting abiogenesis confused with your creation story..

stoneraven said...

I have a proposition for Gertrude, ask God to come down to the next Atheist Student get-together and perhaps we will start believing, if he can't make it I guess we'll just have to take your word for it.

stoneraven said...

Gertrude said: "Hold on. Dont you believe YOU are an Animal? Now im confused.Contradictory statements. You cant make up your mind? First your equal now you are superior?
We ARE special. Saying anything else is just silly. Look at us, look what we can do, think act."

You apparently cannot read Gertrude, but I guess I shouldn't expect much from a person that hears the voice of "God" and lives in a fairy-tale world where the USA is the greatest Christian nation on Earth and treats all human life with respect.

We are animals, plain and simple, no one here confuses that issue except you (but I guess that is b/c you don't think we are animals do you Gertrude?).

Jennifer Juniper said...

This is the best:

"Do you really believe a monkey have a soul? So why doesnt he build Airplanes? Computers? Debate?"

hahahahahaha I love that a SOUL is all that separates us! The brain has NOTHING to do with it.

The problem with talking to people like her is that they honsetly just can't understand what you're saying. It's like she's reading what you are writing and all she sees is "HEATHEN, HEATHEN, HEATHEN."

But seriously, it's as if she just can't comprehend your words (or her own, it seems, when she thinks she's said stuff she hasn't), which is what I find with most religious fanatics.

stoneraven said...

"WHY would you NOT want to live anywhere else? Somewhat of a contradiction?If the UNITED STATES, a nation of CHRISTIANS (majority) is so good, that must mean our Religion isn't to bad then, eh?
Why not move to Soviet Union? Or China? WHY WOULD YOU NOT want to live anywhere else? Please, give details. It would be good for you to think aout that question, and it may make you go 'oh... ahhhhh!'."

Here Gertrude is clearly satisfied with herself and thinks she has gained some strong foothold, does it really matter why WE don't want to live somewhere else? The answer of course is No but Gertrude wants atheists to cave-in and worship Jesus because "God did it" is all she can wrap her little peon, fundie brain around.

Sarge said...

Well, I've lived places other than America, speak languages other than English, and strange as it may be, one place is pretty much the same as the other at the bottom.

There are some very, very fine people, and others are loathesome. Most sort of swing back and forth around the middle, like a pendulum.

This alleged deity seems a bit fickle, what with "chosen" peoples. Hasn't done much for the Jews, really, England had it for a while, France, Rome...

I think of those "good christian" people who wiped out races. Real christian acts, giving others blankets tainted with smallpox.

"God shed his grace..." All written at the time of the sweat shop, the driven ship with a bucko mate, the peonage of share cropping and the company town, lynchings, the coal and iron police...

Well, that's the blindness of belief.

As to the monkey/soul thing, watch chimps interacting or baboons having
a squabble, then watch a televangelist capering about his stage. About the only difference is that one has clothes and stage props.

stoneraven said...

**And what is "darwinism?"**

I suspect what she is doing here is trying to associate very Nazi-esque ideas of "social darwinism" with atheists and Biology in general, when in fact evolution and evolutionary biology has nothing to do with it (and is not its causation).

thegecko said...

*ahem*

Darwinism =/= a religion

Also, it really upsets me as a trained scientist when people start throwing about the word "theory" like the "scientific community" is preaching some religious doctrine they think is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. A theory is merely a hypothesis (an educated guess based on previous evidence) that has been supported by many, many years of repeated experiments, published peer-reviewed data, and a body of evidence that is difficult to ignore. NO THEORY IS EVER CONSIDERED PROVEN. Even the theory of gravity is not considered "proven".

stoneraven said...

You are right of course Gecko, but Gertrude isn't a scientist she is a religious fundamentalists so any characterization she makes of anything will have a religious undertone... I just thought she was perhaps taking a cloaked shot at science as being either amoral or immoral.

Veronica said...

Not being North american gives a kind of different perpective on Gertrude's saying about the greatest country in the world. I believe the best country in the world is the one you live in and you love. For some reason, most religious people believe they are the chosen ones. Chosen for what? Actually, according to recent data, the best country in the world is Iceland in terms of living conditions for their society. Religion has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it.
As for the soul thing, it is pretty easy to believe we're special, so we can continue using the world however we may please, disrespecting nature the we do now.
I don't believe in God because I don't need to. So far all my questions have been answers through science and I'm kind of happy with them. If I were totally happy I wouldn't be a scientist myself.
One other thing: what's is this obsession religious people have now with statistics?? Any trained person in statistics nows that you can prove anything you like with it, and that's why the original data should be presented along with the statistical results. Where is the original data Gertrude?

Veronica said...

I forgot: Thank you so much for this blog!!! I wish I could go to your meeting and all, but being miles away makes it a bit hard! But keep it up girls! Don't let the Gertrudes in the world destroy your motivation!

Michael said...

Hahaha, Soviet Union. When people say fundies live in the past usually I don't take that literally!

Traverse said...

As a Canadian who has lived in many other countries I can honestly say that the idea of living in the US doesn't so much appeal. There are some upsides and some downsides.
As an atheist with the ability to think I can honestly say that Gertrude doesn't have even a simple grasp on her own arguments. Everything she uses is old hat and has been shot down a million times and more. At least the crazy guy on youtube had some cool charts and stuff.